„Regarding this issue, what I believe Saudi is missing the most right now, Michal, are clear, red lines between men and women.“
This sentence could be understood in too many ways. I look Khalid into his eyes in eager expectation for whatever he says next. We have been discussing the changes in the Saudi society and the complex situation between men and women segregation for the past 30 minutes and I had a strong hunch that this person has an all-time prime spot in my personal treasure chest where I carefully put memories and relationships with people I’m lucky enough to meet.
„The men must clearly know where this red line which they mustn’t cross is. And naturally, women must know exactly the same – they must be able to clearly know what is still OK and what is not OK anymore. Unfortunately, many women in Saudi Arabia don’t know this yet. They know how to talk to family members, but they don’t know how to talk to strangers and I hope that the education in this way becomes better to give them more power. Without that, the change in the current work-force structure is difficult to achieve as well.”
“I agree that the boundaries have to be set right and both parties should have both responsibility and enough respect to know and approve where they are. But this isn’t working unfortunately even in many places in Europe, Khalid.”
The situation is slightly surreal. I have spent the past 5 hours walking through one of the exhibitions in the middle east, talking with different suppliers of my client and coming up with some ideas to save a million or five here and there and generally make the life easier for many people. Yet I have a feeling that the past 30 minutes have given me more insight into this amazing region than anything I have seen or heard during the past 3 months of living and working here.
“Saudi has still a huge way to go Michal, we are still behind countries like Qatar. But it changes for the better. There are of course religious fundamentalists, extremely conservative people on one side. You have an ever-growing group of extremely liberal people which are then sitting on the opposite side. And then there is this middle ground, which I currently believe the government tries to target with its initiatives the most. The young prince is a liberally thinking person and I think that he will try to slowly shift the middle part of the society further away from the religious fundamentalists.”
“That is interesting to hear, but religion…”
“Religion should stay in the lives of the people Michal.”
“I agree – because without that, the system might crumble. But I wanted to ask about the role of the religion on the gender segregation. Do you think that we will ever witness Saudi approaching the Emirates model?”
“I think that it will become better. The government stripped the organisation for promotion of virtue and prevention of vice, or the religious police as it’s often called, of many privileges they had a while ago. And you see the slow changes in the daily life as well. For example there was this food festival in Riyadh few months ago and the place was not even divided in the typical singles and families sections – you had singles, men, women, families mingling on one spot. Now I don’t think that KSA will ever become Dubai. Alcohol will be still forbidden, but I sincerely hope that the level of strictness will become less… rigid. Alcohol is consumed even now in Saudi Arabia.”
“Yes, I heard about that. Yet as it was the case with the prohibition period in the US, the impact on the whole system is quite complex.”
“Definitely. The quality is bad, the control is virtually non-existent, and the level of strictness is just too much. There are some states in the USA which have legalized marihuana, and…”
We spend another 15 minutes talking about demand and supply models for drugs and narcotics, the feeling of different European cities, change management in state corporations… something that is difficult to discuss on a deep and profound enough level even in the academic world, not with someone from a rather conservative country. I feel pure joy coming from the discussion. Our background is different, but it seems that many values, and even more importantly, the respect for factual insights, are similar and enable a fruitful conversation.
I can’t help not remembering the words of a manager at my client’s side when we were discussing the tensions between different religious groups.
“You know Michal, I think that the problem is not with Islam, but with Muslims.”
Not that I’d think that any social framework is good, but I could see his point here. I’ve discussed this issue once with few of my colleagues and we have come up with a working hypothesis that in the case of a strong connection between the religion and the people, such as in KSA, most of the opinions about the world and values are defined by locally present religious leaders – Imams in this case. Now with Imams, the situation is similar as with many doctors – the best one stay in the cities, the rest goes to provide their services to the rural areas and shape the opinions and values in a rather rigid and simplistic way. Of course we have not enough Arabic language skills verify this with the locals nor any sample to analyze, but why not come up under the pseudointellectual rush with a combination of random ideas, weld them somehow together, and live with a subjective feeling that you understand the world a little bit more.
I look at the watch and Khalid smiles.
“Don’t forget the rush hour Michal, you’d better go if you want to catch your plane.”
“It was a please talking to you, Khalid.”
“Pleasure was all mine. My office is on the 16th floor. I hope to see you again.”
“Let’s definitely talk again.”
I get up, we shake hands, and I rush to the parking lot to catch a taxi.